WASHINGTON — Robert F. Kennedy Jr. appears before his second congressional committee Thursday, the next step for President Trump’s pick to lead the Health and Human Services Department before confirmation votes. Lawmakers on the Senate HELP Committee are questioning RFK Jr. on his vaccine views, plans to tackle chronic illnesses, and more. Follow STAT’s live updates below for key moments and analysis.
At a glance: RFK Jr.’s confirmation hearing day 2
Live coverage will be posted below in reverse chronological order.
1:11 P.M.
Cassidy questions whether RFK Jr. could jeopardize President Trump’s legacy
RACHEL COHRS ZHANG
Cassidy finished the hearing with a monologue questioning whether RFK Jr. could harm President Trump’s legacy, and said he has not decided whether to support his confirmation.
Cassidy said he wants Trump to succeed as a Republican, but he worries that if someone doesn’t get vaccinated “because of [RFK Jr.’s] policies or attitudes” and later dies of a vaccine-preventable disease, that it could get “blown up in the press.”
“The greatest tragedy will be her death. But I can also tell you an associated tragedy … that will cast a shadow over President Trump’s legacy,” Cassidy said.
Cassidy is an important swing vote for RFK Jr.’s confirmation, as he also sits on the Finance Committee, which will vote soon on whether to favorably advance his confirmation to the full Senate.
Cassidy also questioned whether RFK Jr. could truly have a change of heart after decades questioning the safety of vaccines and refusing to accept existing scientific evidence.
“Does a 70-year-old man, 71-year-old man, who spent decades criticizing vaccines, and who’s financially vested in finding fault with vaccines — can he change his attitudes and approach now that he’ll have the most important position influencing vaccine policy in the United States?” Cassidy asked.
Cassidy acknowledged that RFK Jr. has a large following, and questioned whether he would tell his followers to support or undermine vaccinations.
“I got to figure that out for my vote,” Cassidy said.
1:00 p.M.
RFK Jr. suggests Black Americans should have different vaccine schedule
SARAH TODD AND USHA LEE MCFARLING
The nominee stood by his previous statement that “we should not be giving Black people the same vaccine schedule that’s given to whites, because their immune system is better than ours,” under questioning from Sen. Angela Alsobrooks (D-Md.).
There is no scientific evidence that the immune systems of Black people differ from those of white people; the Human Genome Project in 2023 revealed that humans of different races share 99.9% of their DNA. A 2020 JAMA study that suggested that Black people were dying at higher rates from Covid-19 because of a racial difference in their nasal epithelia was pilloried by scientists.
“There’s a series of studies, I think most of them by Poland, that show that to particular antigens, that Blacks have a much stronger reaction,” Kennedy said in response to Alsobrooks’ request that he explain himself. “There’s differences in reaction to different products by different races.”
One 2014 study by Gregory Poland, a physician and vaccine researcher at Mayo Clinic, on Somali Americans’ response to the rubella vaccine was used in an anti-vaccine film by Kennedy’s former group Children’s Health Defense; Poland said that the film’s interpretation of his study was inaccurate. STAT has reached out to Poland for comment.
Alsobrooks, who is Black, asked Kennedy what vaccine schedule she should have received. “The Poland article suggests Blacks need fewer antigens,” Kennedy responded.
“Mr. Kennedy, with all due respect, that is so dangerous,” the senator said. “Your voice would be a voice that parents would listen to, that is so dangerous.”
There is a genetic basis for many diseases — from some types of breast cancer to Huntington’s disease — but this is not the same as saying there is a racial base for diseases. Sickle cell disease, for example, is caused by a gene mutation linked to protection from malaria and does affect more people with African ancestry, but not all people with African ancestry have the disease, and many people who are Asian or Middle Eastern have the disease as well.
Many studies show Black populations do suffer at higher rates from a variety of diseases, both those that involve genetic factors and those that do not, but the causes of those racial disparities are linked to non-biological factors, including poverty, education, lack of access to health care services and healthy food, and structural racism.
12:55 P.M.
RFK Jr. says he supports using medications like buprenorphine to treat addiction
LEV FACHER
Kennedy shed light on one of the biggest outstanding questions regarding his views on drug addiction: whether he supports the use of medications like buprenorphine and methadone as treatments for opioid use disorder.
Asked by Sen. Andy Kim (D-N.J.) whether he supported medication-assisted treatment, he responded simply: “Yes, I do.”
Kennedy’s response was not entirely positive, and at points misleading. He pointedly stopped short of calling methadone and buprenorphine “gold-standard” treatments, and instead bestowed that label on 12-step recovery programs, like Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous.
“The Cochrane Collaboration, which is the most prestigious scientific research organization … has found in studies [that] the gold standard is 12-step programs,” Kennedy said.
This is false. The research review that Kennedy appeared to cite is specific to alcohol and attendance at Alcoholics Anonymous. No such review exists regarding 12-step programs and opioid use.
Groups including the American Medical Association, American Society of Addiction Medicine, and the National Academies of Science, Engineering, and Medicine consider methadone and buprenorphine to be the standard of care for treating opioid use disorder.
12:52 P.M.
RFK Jr. claims his presidential campaign made no money fundraising based on HHS communications freeze
RACHEL COHRS ZHANG
RFK Jr. denied that his presidential campaign committee made any money from fundraising appeals based on HHS’ decision to freeze external communications, despite a fundraising email that implies otherwise.
“How much money has your presidential campaign made … fundraising off of this administration’s complete disregard for the workforce at HHS?” Sen. Angela Alsobrooks (D-Md.) asked.
“Zero,” RFK Jr. replied.
A campaign fundraising email on Monday touted the communications freeze as it asked for donations to help cover a $2 million campaign debt that the Team Kennedy campaign committee attributed to the cost of hiring private security.
A separate fundraising email sent Wednesday during RFK Jr.’s hearing before the Senate Finance Committee noted that RFK Jr.’s “final confirmation vote is fast approaching” asked for additional funds to cover a $1.5 million shortfall.
“We’ve already achieved so much together. We’ve reduced the campaign debt to $1.5 million, inching closer to the finish line,” the Wednesday email stated.
Team Kennedy did not immediately respond to a request for comment about whether the committee made money from its fundraising efforts based on the HHS freeze.
12:31 P.M.
RFK Jr. promises Senate input on NIH studies
SARAH OWERMOHLE
RFK Jr. appeared to make an extraordinary promise to submit proposed studies at the National Institutes of Health to the Senate HELP Committee for review.
“I will commit to you here today, a review prior to approving any study at NIH to allow you to approve the protocols and the researchers and help us choose the research. And all I want is good science, and I would love input from this committee on any study that we do.”
The NIH comprises 27 different institutes and centers that fund more than 50,000 research projects — spanning from cancer to infectious diseases, chronic diseases, aging, health disparities, and mental health — on an annual basis. It is unclear how such a process would work in practice and what input the committee would have. It is an unprecedented commitment from any HHS nominee.
Sen. John Hickenlooper (D-Colo.), who had asked RFK Jr. to pledge he would not “twist the results” of any NIH research, even appeared somewhat surprised by the pledge.
“That shows that this is the first time you’re being considered for a Cabinet position, because no other person would ever solicit and willingly approve our participation,” he said.
RFK Jr. also said, earlier in the exchange, that the NIH, CDC, and FDA “should identify the toxins that are controlling that are contributing to chronic disease.”
He also separately repeated a claim multiple times that “very little” of the NIH’s research funding goes to chronic diseases. The agency annually reports its funding levels by disease area, with substantial yearly grants to cancer, pediatric diseases, aging, obesity, diabetes and other chronic illnesses.
12:17 p.M.
Trump is committed to negotiating lower drug prices, RFK Jr. says
RACHEL COHRS ZHANG
President Trump is committed to using Medicare’s drug price negotiation program to lower prices, RFK Jr. said.
“I’ve spoken to President Trump about negotiations. He’s absolutely committed to negotiating lower drug prices,” RFK Jr. said.
Sen. John Hickenlooper (D-Colo.) asked RFK Jr. to elaborate on a statement the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services released yesterday that seemed to state that the administration will continue the second round of Medicare drug price negotiations that the Biden administration kicked off.
RFK Jr. appeared to confuse the CMS statement with an executive order during his confirmation hearing Wednesday, as he said an executive order was forthcoming about Trump’s support for Medicare drug price negotiation. Such an executive order has not been released. The Department of Health and Human Services did not respond to a request for clarification.
12:00 P.M.
RFK says he has relinquished rights to fees in Gardasil litigation
JOHN WILKERSON
Kennedy said he will not profit from lawsuits over the HPV vaccine Gardasil, clarifying a question that was left unclear by the financial disclosures he provided as part of his confirmation process. The documents seemed to indicate that he could receive fees from the litigation.
“I have given away all of my rights to any fees in that lawsuit,” he said.
RFK Jr. was a co-counsel at Wisner Baum on the Gardasil litigation. In his ethics disclosures, he said he is not an attorney for the firm and is not trying cases for the firm, and will resign from a consulting arrangement with Wisner Baum if he is confirmed.
RFK Jr. stated in the disclosures that he would “retain an interest” in some cases brought by Wisner Baum but would forgo any fees from cases involving the U.S. government, including the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program, against which he’s lodged multiple complaints. RFK Jr. was entitled to 10% of the fees awarded in contingency cases he referred to the firm.
11:42 A.M.
RFK Jr. calls GLP-1s ‘miracle’ drugs, says they shouldn’t be frontline treatments
LIZZY LAWRENCE
RFK Jr. praised the blockbuster GLP-1 weight loss drugs but said they should not be the first-line treatment for obesity. That echoes the views of several public health leaders — including former FDA commissioner Robert Califf.
He wrongly asserted that doctors offer them as frontline treatments to 6-year-old children with obesity. In fact, Novo Nordisk’s Wegovy is not approved for children under 12 and Eli Lilly’s Zepbound is not approved for anyone under 18.
In response to the question from Sen. Andy Kim (D-N.J.), RFK Jr. said the cost of prescribing GLP-1s to everyone with overweight or obesity would be unsustainable for insurance companies and the federal government, and that doctors can’t discount the importance of exercise. He also noted the drugs’ side effects, and the fact that patients often gain weight back once they are no longer taking the drugs.
11:38 A.M.
RFK Jr. supports gender-affirming care restrictions, and urges ‘love’
SARAH OWERMOHLE
The nominee pledged that he would rescind Biden administration rules requiring that people seeking medical care be treated consistent with their gender ideology, and voiced support for President Trump’s pledge to restrict gender-affirming care for minors.
Demands to rescind Biden-era protections for transgender care were among the broad swath of executive orders that Trump signed on his first day in office. The president this week ordered that federal funding be revoked for all gender-affirming care on people under the age of 19.
RFK Jr. said he particularly supports restricting care for minors. “We don’t let them drive an automobile, because they have bad judgment. They are flooded with hormones. Their brains are still in formation. Their sexuality is still in formation. Allow[ing] them to make judgments that are going to have life-changing implications … at that age, is unconscionable,” he said.
(Many states allow minors to drive before reaching age 18).
Forms of gender-affirming care, particularly for minors, include counseling, therapy, and puberty blockers. Roughly a quarter of transgender or nonbinary people seek surgeries to affirm their identity, but very few are minors, according to clinical experts and researchers.
LGBTQ+ advocates and most health care practitioner groups in the U.S. say gender-affirming care is vital to mental well-being. Support groups such as the Trevor Project have reported a surge in crisis calls since Trump’s election. Experts have called the batch of Trump orders a “dramatic failure” to understand biology and this type of care.
RFK Jr. called it “common sense” not to require pediatricians to treat a transgender person if it is not consistent with their beliefs, but also somewhat tried to walk a line by urging “diversity” of thought and debate.
“I do want to add that people who have gender differences should be respected,” he said. “They should be loved.”
11:36 A.M.
Sen. Hassan criticizes RFK Jr. on Medicare knowledge, relitigating settled science
SARAH TODD
A fiery Sen. Maggie Hassan (D-N.H.) went after RFK Jr.’s theories on potential links between vaccines and autism, which have been disproven, discussing her experience as a mother of a son with cerebral palsy.
“A day does not go by when I don’t think about, what did I do when I was pregnant with him that might have caused the hydrocephalus that has so impacted his life? So please do not suggest that anybody in this body of either political party doesn’t want to know what the cause of autism is,” she said. The problem with the nominee’s insistence on further examining data on vaccines, she continued, is that “he’s relitigating and churning settled science so we can’t go forward and find out what the cause of autism is and treat these kids and help these families.”
Next, Hassan questioned the nominee on his understanding of Medicare and Medicaid, correcting him in several instances on topics like the distinctions between Medicare Parts A and B, and his misstatement in yesterday’s confirmation hearing that Medicaid is “fully funded” by the federal government. (The program is jointly funded by federal and state governments.) “Mr. Kennedy, you want us to confirm you to be in charge of Medicare, but it appears that you don’t know the basics of this program,” Hassan said.
11:30 A.M.
RFK Jr. rattles off statistics on chronic disease
ISABELLA CUETO
A quick fact-check here: RFK Jr. is right that rates of chronic disease have increased since the 1970s, and the reasons are multifaceted and still being studied. He says today the rate of chronic disease in kids is 66%. That’s an overestimation.
Research suggests that over 40% of children and adolescents have at least one chronic condition, though the severity of those illnesses varies (from, for example, mild allergies all the way up to serious illness).
About 36% of children and adolescents ages 2 through 19 have overweight or obesity, according to federal data. At least 28% of adolescents are estimated to have prediabetes, but that number is closer to 40% for adolescents with obesity.
It’s true that about 1 in 36 American children has been identified with autism spectrum disorder. The experience of autism, like most conditions, can vary greatly between children. Experts are not certain why rates of autism have been rising, but the idea that specific vaccines cause autism has been studied and debunked.
It’s difficult to know what share of the increase in autism is a result of better, more consistent screening, clearer diagnostic criteria, or simply more awareness among patients and clinicians. For example, rates of autism that were calculated for the first time in the 1960s sharply increased in subsequent decades, once diagnostic criteria were expanded and there were more studies of prevalence around the world.
RFK Jr. also says 77% of adolescents don’t qualify for service in the U.S. military. This is true, according to analyses from the Pentagon. The reasons for disqualification are varied, and include BMI and health status, but also academics, drug use, and more.
11:07 A.M.
RFK Jr. says vaccine safety data systems are ‘broken’
SARAH OWERMOHLE
Questioned by Sen. Tammy Baldwin (D-Wis.) about the federal government’s various databases and reporting systems for vaccine injuries, RFK Jr. became confrontational. He argued that the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention keeps the data “under locks” and will not let independent scientists review raw data.
This repeats his longtime insistence for open access to the CDC’s Vaccine Safety Datalink, which partners with sites across the U.S. that send health record data to help monitor for potential adverse events.
RFK Jr. criticized the program in his 2023 book, “Vax-Unvax: Let the Science Speak,” as limited by “lack of broad access to this publicly funded database, the variability of reporting, and the statistical structure of the database.”
At the hearing this morning, he said in a contentious back-and-forth with Baldwin that the system is “broken.”
His comments and previous writing suggest that RFK Jr. will push to make more adverse event data public. He has also argued, in his 2023 book, to have adverse events reporting “automated” into a separate, existing database, the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System, and to penalize providers who do not report these events.
The National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act of 1986 requires health care providers and vaccine makers to report to HHS adverse events that occur shortly after vaccines are given.
10:32 A.M.
RFK Jr. refuses to say vaccines don’t cause autism
RACHEL COHRS ZHANG
Robert F. Kennedy Jr. refused to confirm to senators that he believes that vaccines do not cause autism.
Senate health committee chair Bill Cassidy (R-La.) pinpointed the issue during his questioning. Cassidy is a swing vote on RFK Jr.’s confirmation.
“Will you reassure mothers unequivocally and without qualification, that the measles and hepatitis B vaccines do not cause autism?” Cassidy, a physician, asked the nominee.
“If the data is there, I will absolutely do that,” RFK Jr. said.
RFK Jr. in the 2023 book he co-wrote, “Vax-Unvax: Let the Science Speak,” questioned the safety of vaccines including for hepatitis B, and cited statistics arguing that the hepatitis B shot puts children more at risk for developmental disabilities.
Cassidy followed up saying that he used to treat patients with hepatitis B and he knows the data already exists.
“If you show me data, I will be the first person to assure the American people … that they need to take those vaccines,” RFK Jr. replied. He then pledged that if somebody shows him data that says he’s wrong, he will apologize for past statements.
Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) picked up on Cassidy’s line of questioning, saying that dozens of studies done all over the world make clear that vaccines don’t cause autism, and asked whether RFK Jr. agrees that vaccines don’t cause autism.
RFK Jr. reiterated his request for Sanders to show him the studies instead of answering directly.
“Your job was to have looked at those studies as an applicant for this job,” Sanders said.
Twenty epidemiological studies across the globe have shown that the combination measles, mumps, and rubella vaccine and the additive thimerosal do not cause autism.
10:30 A.M.
Cassidy presses RFK Jr. on vaccine beliefs
SARAH OWERMOHLE
Sen. Bill Cassidy (R-La.) picked back up on the safety of hepatitis B vaccines in the first round of questioning, pointedly asking RFK Jr. about that immunization, his theories about autism, and previous comments suggesting that Lyme disease was a lab-developed bioweapon.
As RFK Jr. did yesterday, he insisted that many of those comments were taken out of context or misinterpreted. He refused to say that vaccines do not cause autism (they do not), and said several times that he needs to see more data.
But he also told Cassidy that he would apologize and walk back any of his vaccine criticism if he was proven wrong.
“If you show me data, I will be the first person to assure the American people that they need to take those vaccines,” he said.
Cassidy pushed back on that point, saying the data has been around for years. He then pressed RFK Jr. to assure him and the panel that he would follow the evidence, even if it contradicted his beliefs, and that he would not delay or hamper vaccine reviews at the Food and Drug Administration in the process.
“I am not going to go into HHS and impose my preordained opinions on anybody at HHS. I’m going to empower the scientists,” the nominee said.
10:10 A.M.
Cassidy declares support for vaccines and shares a personal story
RACHEL COHRS ZHANG
Senate HELP Committee chair Bill Cassidy (R-La.) started his hearing with a personal story about caring for an 18-year-old patient with acute liver failure due to hepatitis B. Cassidy, a gastroenterologist who specialized in liver disease, recalled loading this patient into an air ambulance ahead of a liver transplant surgery.
“It was the worst day of my medical career. I thought, $50 of vaccines could have prevented this all,” Cassidy said.
RFK Jr. in the 2023 book he co-wrote, “Vax-Unvax: Let the Science Speak,” questioned the safety of vaccines including for hepatitis B, and cited statistics arguing that the hepatitis B shot puts children more at risk for developmental disabilities.
Cassidy said he has seen the benefits of vaccines, and said he needed RFK Jr. to lay out what he will do with the trust of the people who follow him.
He said RFK Jr.’s past misleading and unfounded arguments about vaccines concern him. He said he’s heard from constituents who credit RFK Jr. with their decisions not to vaccinate their children.
“What will you tell the American mother? Will you tell her to vaccinate her child, or to not?” Cassidy asked.
Cassidy is a swing vote in the Republican caucus and his assent is crucial to RFK Jr.’s confirmation.
6:00 A.M.
What to watch for as HELP hearing gets underway
SARAH OWERMOHLE
There will be some familiar faces from the Finance Committee grilling on the dais this morning. HELP Chair Bill Cassidy (R-La.) yesterday engaged RFK Jr. in a wonky back-and-forth about people eligible for both Medicare and Medicaid. Cassidy has not indicated which way he will vote on RFK Jr.’s nomination, so all eyes are on his line of questioning today.
Meanwhile, ranking member Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) yesterday got in several contentious debates with RFK Jr. about his evolving stance on abortion, high drug costs, and anti-vaccine onesies. The senator could pursue those topics again, and bring more posters.
But many people will be eager to hear from two Republicans who have not yet publicly engaged with RFK Jr: Sens. Susan Collins (Maine) and Lisa Murkowski (Alaska). Neither has announced yet whether they plan to support his nomination, and each has broken with the party line on votes before. Both pro-RFK Jr. groups and opponents are heavily campaigning for their votes in their states.
5:55 A.M.
Finance hearing sets the stage for second day
SARAH OWERMOHLE AND RACHEL COHRS ZHANG
If Robert F. Kennedy Jr.’s first confirmation hearing yesterday was any indication, senators and the nominee are set to spar over a vast range of health care issues from vaccine policy to abortion access, food regulations and potential Medicaid cuts.
RFK Jr. repeatedly accused senators of twisting his past remarks during yesterday’s three-and-a-half-hour confirmation hearing before the Senate Finance Committee. But he also promised to maintain access to vaccines, support global health aid programs, and retain HHS employees he viewed as doing their jobs, in an attempt to reassure skeptical senators.
The nominee also broke some news on the Trump administration’s health care plans. He said that the president plans to sign an executive order supporting Medicare’s drug price negotiation program, a signature achievement of the Biden presidency. He also told senators that Trump asked him to review safety issues related to the abortion pill mifepristone.
But RFK Jr. was less committal about potential changes the administration could make to Medicaid. And as our colleague Isabella Cueto noted, missing from his discussion of chronic illnesses and the drive to “Make America Healthy Again” were specific policy plans to address the issue.
